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A good “starter” vintage watch?
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Hi there! My boyfriend recently got into watches and I’m starting to follow his suit. We both have pretty small collections (not bad for our early 20s) and I would love to get him a watch for his birthday. I have plans to get him a nice watch display case so I want something that looks cool, is a good watch, and ideally, is vintage—he would love a vintage watch but won’t get one for himself because he doesn’t know enough about them (admittedly, neither do i, but I know he would research any watch that’s given to him to learn more about it!).
With that being said, I’ve been browsing chrono 24 for the last few days now. I think I can pretty much discern the very obvious fakes, and since my budget for this watch caps at $500, I know I’m not getting anything crazy. That being said, do you all have any vintage starter watch recommendations? Something I can get original box & papers for without breaking the bank, and is actually a good watch? I’ve seen really nice styles from Gucci and Tiffany in my price range but I know they’re not the premier watch makers, and my boyfriend (while he would love ANY watch to grow his collection) enjoys higher quality watches over more “luxury” brands. Thank you for the help!
Edited to add this: wow thank you all so much for the input! Going to add a few things here that were common throughlines in the comments but will respond to every person as well!
His collection is currently a Seiko Prospex Land (green face, gold accents, brown leather band) and a Tissot Chronograph (blue face with silver accents and band). Mine is a seiko, and I may be receiving a Cartier Tank from the early 90s (long story lol). I know he’s currently looking for a watch with a gold band and black or white face, on the dressier side. I’m not married to the idea of original papers/box, I just think it would be cool. He’s definitely a watch wearer & enjoyer, less of an invester, as am I. I would want something he could reasonably wear somewhat frequently—aka, something not trashed that needs a lot of work. I’m willing to flex on my budget by maybe $200 more (so $700 max) if I’m getting something TRULY exceptional for my specs, but I would prefer to cap at $500 because we’re both beginners. Again, that would really be if I found something specific that is perfect specs, I can determine it’s authentic, and it’s a wild deal.
Hope this helps!
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You can not go wrong with Seiko 6138 or 6139 chronographs. Very stable prices, and they will go up in value. Obviously, don’t buy “junk”, buy from a reputable seller. Ideally you find an all-original sample, but they will be the most expensive. These Seikos exist in a reasonable “price structure”- for example a “mint original” vs aftermarket dial and hands vs. polished vs. unpolished case, rebuilt movement, or movement works but has no service history, original bracelet.... Prices range from $160- $2,000, everything in between.
(Mostly 6138 and 6139 series in this box)
[SOTC] My vintage watch collection
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It all started with the Vacheron Constantin. This was my grandfather’s watch and it was passed on to me when he died. I had always had watches, but never anything like that. It was 80 years old and on the first wind, it started running like it was brand new. Something about that made me become fascinated with old mechanical watches. I’ve since broadened my collection and I’ll be continually modifying and dialing in my preferences, but that VC will never leave.
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Lovely collection seriously all watches are pieces I'd personally also use. But question. If you buy a vintage watch that was recently serviced and has papers and box and recognized autenthicity from a reliable source do you think it can still go bad?
I'm asking because vintage Omegas interest me a lot for context
[Question] What's everyone's thoughts on Vintage watches?
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I was looking to get a nice watches for under $500 and was looking at either a Brew Metric or a PRX on the aftermarket. I'm pretty sure at this price range its gonna be a quartz watch. But then I came across a vintage 1975 Seiko Grand Quartz with a snowflake dial around the same price (aftermarket of course). I don't see a lot of information on vintage watches or at least ones that aren't high luxury. I know that most don't have a sapphire crystal but other than that is there anything else to be wary of. A snowflake dial for sub $500 sound great to me, but I know newer watches have better movements and technology.
TLDR: I just wanted to see what people think about vintage watches and if theres anything I should watch out for when pursuing a vintage watch. Things to watch out for, red flags, green flags etc. Or even if I should pursue a vintage watch over a newer one.
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Just a quick warning, I pulled the trigger on a vintage omega for $500. Really beautiful piece, but a service & polish will cost just as much as the watch did. I don’t mind but if you aren’t prepared it can be quite the sticker shock
[Recommendations] Affordable Vintage
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I am looking for another brand of affordable vintage watch. I have a Vostok (I love the history) and a Seiko, they are great. Are there any other brands that would fit those criteria? Vintage and $100 or less. I’m not rich.
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I am a fan of vintage watches too! My preference is old military issued, especially ones that are serialized on the back, meaning they were issued and worn in the field.
I lean twords watches circa 1940s - 1950s pre quartz. Here’s a list of some cool military pieces and modern inspirations.
[Question] What’s the best place to buy a legitimate vintage watch?
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I’m looking to buy a vintage watch from the 40s-60s especially interested in jlc dress watches and omega sea masters since I’ve heard you can get them for a relatively low price (under 1.5k or so) and I wanted to know where I can buy these online without risking getting a counterfeit?
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r/kabaclyde's got you covered
[Vintage] Tips on purchasing a vintage watch?
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So I’ve been searching Chrono24 looking a several vintage watches, but I realized I didn’t really know where to start. I’ve heard enough horror stories to know that I’d like to avoid any of that if at all possible.
For anyone who has experience purchasing vintage watches, what would you recommend about the process? Where should I look if I want to buy? Anything specific that I should look out for/avoid? I’d most likely be buying online, are there anyways to verify what I’d be purchasing online? Any tips to verify the seller/avoid scams?
I checked the wiki, but I couldn’t find anything specific. If there’s some sort of guide somewhere that I might’ve missed, let me know!
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If you're not bothered about redial and swapped parts etc it shouldn't be too hard, but if you do it's tough - you gotta read up about the specific model, and then buy from a reputable used dealer ideally.
[Guide] How To Buy Cheap Vintage Watches
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If you’re poor but want to flex this guide is for you.
I have been attempting to buy undervalued watches for years and these are some tips that ive learned and wanted to share to the r/watches community.
EBAY: There are really only two ways to browse for watch deals on ebay, SORT: newly listed buy it now or SORT: ending soonest auction. When looking for good deals auctions are almost always the way to go. It seems lately that the winning bid is a toss up to whoever's max is above retail but there are certain things you can do to avoid this.
1)You should always buy at odd hours during from the region that you are buying from. For example, if you live in the United States and are buying watches from the United States auctions that end in the middle of the night or weekends are much less lily to get poached by dealers. A vintage Omega that would sell for $400 USD in the middle of the day on a Tuesday might go for $250 Sunday at 3:30am.
2)Bid within the last twenty seconds of an auction. I've watched low priced watches go from zero bids to 10 within minutes of the auction ending. They can’t win if they don't have time to bid, the less seconds on the clock the better.
3)Bid at odd price intervals. If an auction is about to end for a peice and say the price is $250USD don't put a max bid of $300. A max bid of $306 or even $301 eliminates getting out bid by pennies.
4)Low ball offers, you don't know these people who cares what they think of you.
5)Watches almost always look better in person, does the description have two sentences and some grainy photos? What are the odds they even tried to make it look good.
6)If a new lt listed BUY IT NOW listing has a lot of people “watching” that deal won't last long, if you want it you may not get a second chance.
PAWN SHOPS AND JEWELRY STORES
1)Pawn shops are always a toss up, look for them in nice areas or even better, areas that used to be nice. An industrial part of town that had a lot of business in the 60s may be laden with vintage watches people no longer have a use for and end up selling.
2)Jewelry stores will almost always be over priced in my experience.
MY FAVORITE: COIN SHOPS
1)People always think watches are valuable due to metal content etc and sell them at coin shops. Coin shops guys are not watch guys and will in turn sell what they cant scrap for cheap.
2)Every town has a coin shop, make connections with these guys and they will gladly sell you that vintage hamilton they where going to strip for $1 worth of gold plating.
These are just some tips ive come across that help me buy cheap watches that I would not regularly be able to afford, hope you all find it helpful :)
Some other write ups i've made: (How to buy cheap Hamitlons)[https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/aj5a6v/hamilton_a_great_start_for_the_broke_vintage/] (Best cheap vintage Omegas)[https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/airdix/omega_the_most_undervalued_watches_on_ebay/]
Top Comment:
Pretty solid starter guide based on my own experience.
Some other thoughts:
- sellers with old accounts and low numbers of transactions are probably more trustworthy than new sellers with a lot of transactions.
- Avoid sellers with less than 98% positive selling feedback.
- Don't be afraid of bidding down to the cent. I've won by $0.13 before
- Learn trigger words that indicate a watch has been messed with: refurbished, renovated, polished, repainted, etc.
The beginner's guide to buying vintage watches. MFA style.
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pre-disclaimer: this guide was created with my first-hand knowledge of a hobby of mine, and is created out of my personal experience and is in no way complete or absolute.
Some easy rules to remember right off the bat:
- Don’t believe that your purchase is an investment.
- Vintage watches are NEVER water-proof.
- Vintage watches will require servicing.
- If you think you’ve stumbled upon a great find, WAIT, do your research and ask people more knowledgeable.
- Unless you’re a watchmaker or a watch building hobbiest, DON’T purchase a watch that needs major repair. The few small missing parts of higher end vintage watches are extremely expensive and hard to find, and sometimes have to be made for you by a watchmaker, again, this is extremely expensive.
- Don’t try to BUILD a vintage watch out of parts (kind of tied in with the last rule), mechanical watches are not models or things to play with. They are extremely intricate and without the right tools and experience your watch project will likely never see completion.
So what is considered vintage? Some collectors say pre-quartz (1969), some say 20 years old or more, 25 years or more....there is no one definitive answer. For the purposes of this guide, a vintage watch has mechanical movement (no quartz), and is at least 25-30 years old. I simply prefer watches in 1960’s styling, but I also like some watches from the 1970’s and 1950’s.
I know companies like Rolex, Omega, Movado and Tag Huer, but what is Vacheron Constantin, Jaeger-Lecoultre, A Lange and Sohne, and Audemars Piguet? Although not specifically vintage, this website gives a brief and basic table of the different levels of luxury that can be found (scroll to bottom). It's a great resource to understand why the handful of examples given are in the price ranges they are. Also, you can expect vintages to be priced less than the guide prices new watches.
Watches from the luxury and hi-end luxury areas of that chart have extensive amounts history in their watch lines, and you can expect to pay a premium for any watch in that category.
What are movements, ebaushes and calibers? A movement is the completed, finished individual mechanism contained inside the case of the watch, not including the case or dial itself, which is responsible for keeping time. An ebauche is typically understood to mean a "raw" or unassembled, unfinished movement, including the major structural components (plates, bridges) and sometimes parts of the wheel train and other moving parts. A caliber is the collective name given to a series of movements of the same design.
The most common types of movements found in vintage mechanical watches are: (I used all Omega movements for the sake of consistency)
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- Manual (needs to be wound in order to run, a few twists in the morning will keep it going nicely)
- 2) Automatic/self-winding (the movement has a rotor which winds the watch as you walk)
- 3) Bumper/bumper automatic (a self winding watch like the automatic, but the rotor doesn’t make a full rotation)
- 4) Chronograph (needs manual winding, works as a normal chrono does)
What are jewels? Jewels (originally natural ruby, now synthetic ruby) are actually used in the movement. These jewels are functional - they are used as the bearings for the wheel trains and in high wear parts such as the escape lever and impulse jewel. A lower-end movement from before 1970 would typically use 5 or 7 jewels.
Accuracy A cheap quartz watch will always keep better time than ANY mechanical watch (no matter hte price!). A vintage watch keeping good time should be ticking at +/- 20 secs a day. I consider an excellent/very well serviced watch to keep time at around +/- 5 seconds a day.
Branding A vintage watch from a certain watchmaker is not necessarily tied to the brand today, quality-wise. For example, Gruen watches in the 1930s were very fine, although they sell for less because today the brand is only a shadow of its former self. On the other side of this, an A. Lange & Sohne from the 19th century will not be on par with the quality of one made today, though it will sell at a premium because of the name. (credit: Liberalguy123)
What is signing? Signing is a term used to refer to the brand logo and how many times the company has “signed” this piece. Typically, vintage luxury watches are signed 6 times: on the dial, on the crystal, on the caseback, on the strap clasp, on the movement, and on the crown.
What is servicing? Every mechanical watch needs to get serviced every few years by a professional in order to check the wear of the mechanics, rubies, etc. This includes taking the movement completely apart, cleaning each piece, reassembling it, and oiling the rubies. Cost depends on movement type and brand. Expect to pay anywhere from $45 (standard vintage manual watches) - $550 (hi-end luxury and chronographs).
Buying guide:
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- Try to find a watch that has been recently serviced, or else you have to figure the cost including servicing. Mechanical watches that have not been serviced should not be wound or worn (automatics). The gears/bearings will wear and the watch will break.
- 2) Avoid frankenwatches. A frankenwatch is a watch pieced together from multiple watches, usually to the disadvantage of the buyer. An example would be someone taking a movement from one watch, sticking it in with an Omega Constellation face, and putting it in a Omega Seamaster case. KNOW the watch you are buying, do research on what things should look like, and what movements belong in which watch. Higher end brands are the general target for this.
- 3) Find a style and search many different brands. Start broad. search terms like “Vintage Tissot” or “Vintage Eterna” in ebay or google. Once you find a year/model you like, start filtering down your options. Case shapes and sizes vary wildly from decade to decade. Here’s typical examples of 1950’s 1960’s and 1970’s case shapes. Generally the cases from the 1950’s are smaller than those of the 1960’s, and the 1960’s are smaller than those of the 1970’s. Vintage watches are much smaller (almost feminine) by today's standards of oversized watches. Vintage vs. modern.
- 4) Plastic crystals can scratch very easily. Though they're easily buffed out.
- 5) Gold-filled watches will continue to fade in color over time.
- 6) Don’t buy vintage pocket-watches converted into wristwatches. Just don’t.
- 7) Don’t convince yourself that it is an investment you might see return on.
- 8) When using Ebay, be weary even if the watch is advertised as being recently serviced. Only buy off of Ebay if you have fairly extensive knowledge of hte type of watch you are bidding on. It's ALWAYS recommended to ask for other's opinion on the below mentioned forum before following through with an expensive purchase (relative).
- 9) This DOESN't need to be expensive. I know of many good swiss watch brands that can be found easily for under $50. Some good, less expensive brands are: Croton, Gruen, Roamer, Ingersoll, Waltham, Enicar
Resources: I love this vintage watch forum: spend time here, you’ll learn everything you’ll ever need to. Some reputable vintage watch dealers online: Girards, Farfo, Darlor, Finer Times. Remember that there is always a mark-up going retail. With patience you can find these for a lot less.
I’ll edit this if anyone has something they want me to add or explain.
Top Comment:
Speaking as a watchmaker for a minute here:
Believe it or not, I probably can make your watch run to within +/- 5 seconds a day, even if it's been running wildly off that mark for years. It just takes time to get everything adjusted correctly. A basic service is disassembly, cleaning, reassembly and oiling, and timing out by adjusting the regulator and beat error via the collet or on nicer pieces a beat regulator, minor and simple hairspring adjustments are also done. Generally unless the watch has had a rough history this alone can get it running within 30 seconds/day in 5 or 6 positions. More thoroughly, I can check lock and drop in the escapement, poising on the balance wheel, thorough centering and leveling of the hairspring, adjusting endshake on train wheels, replacing a mainspring at this point is usually a given, and I can spend extra time timing the watch out. I can also do some case refinishing like polishing and light scratch removal if the case material can handle it. Plastic crystals, while fairly easy to scratch, also clean up so well you'll swear it's witchcraft or a brand new crystal. This extra work takes extra time, anywhere from an extra hour to an extra days work, sometimes more on basket cases, but the results can be staggering, I've been surprising myself by overhauling vintage automatics and turning out finished watches running consistently at the +5 seconds/day I set them to. Factor in the minor shocks and g-force inducing arm waving that occurs to the watch throughout the day that cause minor slow downs and the watch can actually keep time more accurately than that. If you wear it normally for a week and every day it's running a similar number of seconds off from true time, bring it back and I can set the regulation to account for that and now you have a watch that keeps almost perfect time when you wear it.
Second, the OP says that replacement parts are very rare and expensive, this isn't usually the case (for non-high-end pieces at least). There are tons of replacement parts out there and available to people who know where to get them, the public and hobbyists are basically unaware of the parts systems in place and still used today. Yes, inevitably the one crucial part needed for your family heirloom restoration will be the one not on hand and not in immediate stock, but fear not because we can put out feelers and find your part, it just takes time. While these replacement parts might not be "cheap", in relation to the total service costs they aren't usually budget breakers. In the watchmaking world business is still done on phone calls and handshakes, if you can wait, your part will find its way to us. That said, yes we can make some parts, but in most cases I don't want to do that. I'm not particularly excited to spend several hours on a lathe making a custom part that I don't feel right charging you as much as I should to break even on labor for.
As far as buying vintage pieces online, particularly ebay, be weary even if the watch is advertised as being recently serviced. If the watch is coming from eastern Europe or Asia there's a very high chance that "recently serviced" means someone who knows that the parts inside the watch need to move for it to keep time has slathered enough oil in to make it run. That is not servicing. I've seen many watches bought fresh from ebay and advertised as freshly serviced only for me to look inside and see all manner of dirt and oil everywhere it shouldn't be (read:everywhere). It will need a full proper cleaning and servicing to run properly. Now with that said, for some reason those countries seem to have nice decent watches all the time for sale, they just need a good service, so while you can't necessarily expect a good running watch right away, you can usually expect a watch that will clean up nicely.
About waterproofing: this is a misnomer. Most of these watches were made before regulation on the use of the word waterproof. Their idea of waterproof was a "waterproof" crown which uses a small o-ring inside the crown to seal around the case tube. This kept dust and small amount of water out, if properly greased and seated, most of the time. They also usually had some sort of gasket on the caseback. Now, while I can't really make your watch truly waterproof, I can usually replace these gaskets and rings and get your watch to a water resistant phase where it's not going to be in danger if you splash it while washing dishes or your hands or wear it in the rain. I can't recommend you submerge it at all, but I do have means available to pressure test and see just how waterproof it is. Do note that vintage dive watches and such that are designed to actually be waterproof, can usually be made truly waterproof again. Vintage Seiko divers are very popular and gaskets are available no problem.
One thing you may have noticed me mentioning several times was how much time everything can take. I'm serious there. Watches are very intricate and small machines, to know them on a level beyond a hobbyist and understand why they do certain things and how to properly work on them takes time and training. There are several people here on Reddit who have a hobby of working on watches, and that's great, but I don't think their skill set includes the type of exacting and absolute clean required for proper watchmaking work. While they may be able to do some basic things to a watch, I'd be very surprised if the work they were doing was actually good for the watch over the long run. Good work also takes time, you can't rush this and expect quality results that will hold up for the next 10 or 15 years that people will try to stretch before the watch is serviced again. This is the main reason watch work can be so expensive. Be weary of cheap watch repair costs, if they're cheap and quick, chances are they're also low quality and dirty and your watch it won't run as well as it could and will need another service sooner than it would otherwise.
[Guide] Where to buy vintage watches on the Internet
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We all know about the big places like ebay, WatchUSeek, Timezone, and the aggregator WatchRecon, but you may not know about the mom and pop websites. Over the years I've put together a descent collection of links that I check on a regular basis when I feel the hankering for another Gruen. I make no claims about whether prices, the quality of merchandise, or the dealers listed below are good. Any comment I make about the prices is only based on what I think about the Gruen prices. As always, be cautious when buying from someone you don't know. I hope you find this useful.
- My Watches No Junk. I'll start off with someone who isn't a dealer but who has an incredible collection that will make you green with envy.
- Second Time Around. Prices are on the high side, but I think that they have exceptionally clean watches. I have purchased one from them and was pleased. They have a fantastic search engine.
- Finer Times. Prices seem reasonable
- Etsy. Yes, that Etsy with all the crafty items. I've purchased two things from private sellers on Etsy. One was ok, one was a real score.
- Farfo. Good looking high end pieces. No search function.
- Boston Private Jewelers
- Girards
- Pens and Watches. The prices seem pretty good.
- Bogoff. High end and rare watches. Prices seem to be on the high side.
- Wanna Buy A Watch?. Prices are on the high side.
- Watches to Buy
- Vintage Watch Classics. A slick looking website that actually isn't very useable. Luckily they only have a couple pages
- Cool Vintage Watches.
- Timely Classics. Tried to buy something once but it turns out his website was out of date and it had been sold already.
- WatchCat. Prices are good and I have an item coming from them now
- Style in Time
- Boomertime. Lots of Accutrons
- Bruce's Vintage Watches. I have purchased an item from him.
- Brisbane Vintage Watches
- Ted's Vintage Watches
- Strickland Vintage Watches. Prices are high
- Neat Watch
- Orange County Watch Company
Top Comment:
This might be helpful for some of you as well. I don't like having to keep re-checking sites like these to find out if there is anything new so I use change detection which sends an email if something changes. Just drop in the new listings page. Great for sites that are out of stock as well!
I've been using it for a while and highly recommend it.